There is a strong chance we will move soon

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Graham Seibert

May 3

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to Tetyana

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Tanya –

 

Oksana and I have been looking for a house to rent in Russanovsky Sad.  We need more space and we want to be close to the house we are building.  On Monday we made an offer to rent a house on Sadovaya 34.  We said we needed to give you one month’s notice.  We could move on May 15.  They would prefer if we moved earlier.

 

The timing could be good for you.  This apartment should be worth several thousand dollars for Euro 2012.  If you are interested in renting it short term, we should work with you to help you profit from this event.

 

I expect we will get a counterproposal from Alexander and Larisa, the owners of Sadovaya 34, today or tomorrow.  I will let you know how the negotiation proceeds.  Meanwhile, please let us know your thoughts on the matter.

 

Thanks,

 

Graham

 

 

Followup on our unfortunate conversation today.

Inbox

x

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Graham Seibert

May 8

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to Tetyana

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Dear Tanya,

 

I was vastly disappointed in our conversation today.

 

Last week we told you of our intent to move. We gave you a maximum of notice – two months – in order that you could take advantage of the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity of Euro 2012. It would have been most convenient for us to move at the end of June, but because Euro 2012 starts in early June we proposed that we might be able to move earlier.

 

We met today with the landlords of a house that we propose to rent. We needed to fix the dates of the rental in the contract, so I called to ask you which date you prefered for our move.  You said as early as possible. I assumed that we would prorate the rent, so you would return the unused portion of our rental deposit. At that point the conversation turned sour.

 

You went into a litany of all the damage we have done to the apartment and how you were not going to give us any money back. That absolutely astounded me. If we were not going to get anything back, why should we move early for your convenience? I was going out of my way to optimize things for you, and you are now going to do nothing for me?

 

I told you I was in a meeting and I needed a decision. When would we move? I needed a date. You did not whatsoever respond to what I needed, and you instead went into a harangue about damage we had supposedly done to the apartment. Something about a painting, which I don't even think is in our apartment. Something about marks on the wall. We were in separate universes. I told you that I had to get back to the meeting with the agent and the other landlords. I could not talk about that subject at that time.  I was trying to end the conversation, but you would not let me say goodbye.

 

Oksana came out to find out where I was. I handed her the phone. You went into the same tirade, not letting Oksana get a word in edgewise. Like me, she tried politely to end the conversation and you would not let it go. She finally said goodbye, saying she was giving the phone back to me, which she did.  Now you accuse her of being rude and hanging up on you? No, it was the other way around. You would not let her either talk or gracefully end the conversation.

 

When you start talking about damage we supposedly did to this apartment you are making a legal claim against the deposit that you hold. I am certain that you do not know how weak your legal position is. Let me give you my view, and ask that you talk to Sergei.

 

Common sense tells you that anything in an apartment wears out over time. That applies to refrigerators, stoves, washing machines, paint, wallpaper, and every kind of furniture. The term we use is that household goods are subject to "normal wear and tear."

 

Accountants make provision for this. In English we call it depreciation; in Russian it is called амортизация.  Ukraine generally follows the guidelines established by the the International Accounting Standards Board.  According to the standards most household furnishings have a useful life of five years. For the purpose of computing the value of items in interior of the house, you would write off 20 percent of the value every year for five years, after which the residual value is considered to be zero.  The rules for depreciation vary.  Some schemes depreciate by different amounts in different years, and sometimes there are different schemes for tax reporting than for financial reporting.  But a five year useful life is pretty standard.

 

In order for you to make a claim against us for destroying anything in the apartment, you would have to have the original invoice to demonstrate what the item cost when it was new, dated to show when it was new. You would then have to show that some action of ours had reduced the value of the item in question below its depreciated value.

 

I see no way you could do this. There are three things in the house less than five years old: the stove, the washing machine, and the by the small cabinet by the telephone. They are all in good shape. Everything else should be fully depreciated.

 

Several chairs in the dining room set have fallen apart, starting shortly after I moved in. I asked you to fix them, but you did not want to do it. You asked me to look into it. I found that they were not economical to fix. By mutual agreement I have been throwing them away. For you to now claim that we destroyed your furniture shows bad faith on your part. I would expect you to acknowledge the verbal agreements that we have made over the years.

 

I feel that I have tried to do everything we could to help you regarding this move, and you have slapped me in the face. We would have been smarter to simply keep the apartment another month and rent it ourselves to football fans in the knowledge that you could not make any claim against us for the damage they did.

 

Without a decision from you, we decided not to conclude the contract for the other house. We are meeting next week to discuss it further. My inclination is to stay here until the end of June, since our rent is paid until then.

 

You have asked for a meeting to discuss damages. Please tell me what date is convenient, and plan to bring invoices and amortization schedules for the items you claim we have damaged. Otherwise let's have a civilized talk about this and come up with the best solution for both of us.  I think a lawyer’s advice would be useful to you.  Please ask Sergei as well.

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Тетяна Клинченко kl-tetyana@ukr.net

May 10

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to me

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Hi Graham,

I really very occupy now, I have a big and urgent service for our chirch.

You can stay here according to your own money interest. You can also be very sure that to broke and to soil our privacy - it is your sacred right.

You invited, as you said me, about 40 guests to this appartment, - it was not in our agreement. This appartment is not for such a crowd.

We subscribed agreement with one person, now - there is three person, the second lives here during two last years. It was not in our agreement.

I allowed you averything beyond our agreement because of my respect and understanding of your life, your life circumstances. And also because of allknown fact that the last (October) payment practically is DEPOSIT for all kinds of damage you could do in appartment.

According to our agreement you had to mouve May 31. October payment - this is your payment for all kinds of damage. You did not pay for rent, you payed deposit for possible damage. Your rent finish May 31. There is no payment for June. You payed DEPOSIT for damage.

Just now I spoke to reeltor with whom you came first time in this appartment. He explained me this allknown rules, and laugh very much that American citizen does know this rule. 

Certainly I could allow you to stay here a few days in June. But we will not have time to prepair appartment for Euro. It will finish that time.  According to your proposal to mouve before Euro I hoped that I could have some money to pay expenses for necessary repair, including that broken and soiled equipment, though it is much more expensive.

If you decided to do everything only in your money interests, without conscience, beyond agreement, - it is your choice. Some people, ssome astrologists can be in ignorance about spiritual laws, but nevertheless they work. You do your choice. 

In every case my peace in God and my conscience according to you is much-much more important for me as this damage. My life depends from God, not from broken furniture and soiled falls, and a few green american papers. 

God bless you.

Tatyana

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Graham Seibert" <
grahamseib@gmail.com>
Кому: "Tetyana (new email) Klinchenko" <
kl-tetyana@ukr.net>
Дата: 8 травня 2012, 21:11:00
Тема: Followup on our unfortunate conversation today.

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Graham Seibert

May 10

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to Тетяна

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Tanya, your arguments make no sense to me.

 

Your claim about 40 people is absurd.  Any person with an apartment has a right to invite guests.  I do not think we ever had 40.  You have known about Oksana since 2009 when I introduced you.  If you wanted her included in the agreement, we could have done it at any time.  Even if I were to agree to paint the whole apartment it would be less than the $1500 deposit.  

 

I am sure there was a better arrangement to be made if we could talk about it civilly.  Please bring the realtor along if we meet; perhaps he can add to the discussion.  We will see whether the problem is with the stupid American or the Russian peasant.

 

In any case, the date is the end of June.  We will meet on that day and I will give you the keys.  Which, incidentally, are to a lock that we paid about $100 to buy.


==========================================================================

 

Тетяна Клинченко kl-tetyana@ukr.net

Jun 10 (7 days ago)

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to me

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Hi Graham,

could we meet somewhere in Metro station? Please write or call.

Today we where in appartment until 4 p.m.

Tatyana



 

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Graham Seibert

Jun 10 (7 days ago)

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to Тетяна

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I'll be passing through Teatralna tomorrow at 13:45.  Can we meet there?

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Тетяна Клинченко kl-tetyana@ukr.net

Jun 11 (6 days ago)

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to me

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Yestarday we wanted to use vacuum cleaner, but did not find it. Where is it?

See you,

Tatyana

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Graham Seibert" <
grahamseib@gmail.com>
Кому: "Тетяна Клинченко" <
kl-tetyana@ukr.net>
Дата: 10 червня 2012, 22:01:43
Тема: Re: Keys

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Graham Seibert

Jun 11 (6 days ago)

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to Тетяна

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I told you about the vacuum cleaner two weeks ago.  The one you had was very old and it broke.  Instead of asking you to replace it, we simply bought a new one, a better one, and took it with us.  

 

The situation with the locks was similar.  When the thieves broke in, it was clear that we needed new locks.  Instead of asking you to pay for it, we simply did it ourselves.  The keys I am giving you are to locks which cost about $150.

 

Also, the extension cord to the refrigerator shorted out.  We bought a new one and are leaving it.  The new stove needs an extension cord.  We bought it and are leaving it.  But the vacuum cleaner is something we need here, so we took it.

 

I'll see you at 13:45 on the platform.

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Тетяна Клинченко kl-tetyana@ukr.net

Jun 11 (6 days ago)

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to me

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What platform?  1) There are 2 of it;     2)  Every platform is very long.

Do you like my proposal for meeting?

I propose you also to take the mattress from the bed (we can not use it now and we must to throw it out after divan and chairs).

Refregerator was broken because unfortunatly you often left it open.

See you,

Tatyana

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Graham Seibert" <
grahamseib@gmail.com>
Кому: "Тетяна Клинченко" <
kl-tetyana@ukr.net>

Дата: 11 червня 2012, 08:27:40
Тема: Re: Keys

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Graham Seibert

Jun 11 (6 days ago)

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to Тетяна

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I don't know whether Stalin himself or Khrushchev made that refrigerator.  It has served its time.  The door never did work especially well, but it is still adequate.  I assure you we did not intentionally leave it open just to keep our food warm.  It voluntarily refused to shut unless we talked sternly to it.  You can try the same.

 

Let's meet by the bottom of the escalator going up to Khmelnitskovo.

 

Graham

 

 

 


.  

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Тетяна Клинченко kl-tetyana@ukr.net

Jun 11 (6 days ago)

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to me

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Electrolux was made in the USA. All your guestions to American presidents in the end of 1990-s.

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Graham Seibert" <
grahamseib@gmail.com>
Кому: "Тетяна Клинченко" <
kl-tetyana@ukr.net>

Дата: 11 червня 2012, 12:00:46
Тема: Re: Keys

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Graham Seibert

Jun 11 (6 days ago)

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to Тетяна

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It's actually Swedish.  In any case, it is far from new.  We treated it well and it served us adequately.  We didn't want to trouble you with spending money to replace something that was not completely broken.  

 

Our relationship is ending badly, and on account of very small matters.  You have won the big battle.  You are keeping the full month's rent.  Please let the small things go and let us be polite to one another at the end.

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Тетяна Клинченко kl-tetyana@ukr.net

Jun 11 (6 days ago)

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to me

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Unfortunatly everything you and Lady touch -  is broken and  "It has served its time"... 

I don't want to offend you or her, but really I am very much surprised such an attitude to environment...

We are O.K. and no problem! But really for our family it is very strange attitude...

Good luck!

 

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Graham Seibert

Jun 11 (6 days ago)

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to Тетяна

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Tanya, I don't want to look at you again.  I will drop the keys in the mailbox when I come by that way.

 

Please consider our appointment today cancelled.

 

Graham Seibert

Jun 12 (6 days ago)

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to Сергій

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Dear Sergei –

 

I made a $1,500 mistake.  I paid Tanya the rent for June (May, actually), trusting that she would treat me fairly with regard to the deposit.  She did not.  She invented a fantastic series of outrageous excuses for refusing to give us back our deposit.  Among them:

·         We put holes in the wall (fewer than 5, compared with perhaps 100 holding up her works of art)

·         We put a huge black mark on the wall (untrue)

·         We had 40 people in the house (untrue)

·         Oksana was not on the lease (I told her about Oksana in 2009; she could have changed the lease at any time).

 

She used every possible justification for stealing the money, claiming that we broke everything in the apartment.  Everything was old four and a half years ago when I moved in.  Much of it dates from Soviet times.  Some of it did break.  Tanya does not even admit that old things break; it is the nature of things.  She adoped the classic Ukrainian Баран negotiating position.  She made outrageous claims and was not open whatsoever to compromise.  She had the power.  She had our money and was not going to consider giving any of it back.  We could not talk, for instance, about the cost of patching the supposed holes in the wall.  She insisted she was keeping the entire deposit.

 

Tanya made a $20 mistake.  Although I was already disgusted with the process, I was ready to give her back the keys.   All she had to do was to say nothing, meet me in Teatralna, and accept them.  But her conscience did not give her peace.  She had to keep making excuses for stealing our money.  She accused us via email of breaking the refrigerator.  It is a fabrication.  The door did not work exactly right for the four years I lived there, but it works adequately.  Or it did when we moved out.  And, she insulted Oksana one more time, for no reason.  Your mother has often insulted Oksana.  I think Tanya is jealous seeing a younger woman find the happiness that has escaped her.

 

At any rate, Tanya made me so mad that I told her I did not want to see her face ever again.  By stealing our deposit, she has destroyed whatever trust once existed between us.  Adding to that the lie about the refrigerator and the hypocrisy of her quoting scripture to justify her theft is despicable. 

 

Her $20 mistake is that she will have to make some duplicate keys for the new tenant.  I paid for the keys I have and will keep them.  If Tanya had not been so intent on lying about the refrigerator and insulting Oksana to cover up her stealing, I would have given them as a gift.  Now I will not.  Whatever relationship we once had is beyond repair.  I want no more to do with her. 

 

I rather like you, but I cannot come between mother and son.  I must say goodbye to you as well.  I hope that, as a Christian lawyer, you take notes on how people behave when money tempts them beyond what they are able. 

 

Please do not contact me again.  It is done.

 

Тетяна Клинченко

Hi Graham, if you want you can throw out the big table (we will do it during ...

11/30/11

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Graham Seibert

12/18/11

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to Тетяна

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Tanya -

 

Thanks for the offer.  Let me bring you up to date.  Oksana has decided that she doesn't have a strong desire to look for a new apartment after all.  We want to stay here until we build our own house, which will take quite a while.

 

This table is really quite useful.  The problem is the broken chairs.  They are not very well made, and one by one, each chair seems to be losing a leg.  It is not a problem because there are more chairs than we need.  If you are going to be replacing the furniture in any case, I'd like to ask your permission to throw out the chairs as they break.

 

Thanks,

 

Graham

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Тетяна Клинченко kl-tetyana@ukr.net

12/18/11

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to me

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Hi Graham,

I am very glad that you stay here. The big and closed space in the garden in the "dvor" will be very useful when your child begin to move, there is also special place to play for children. It is now rarity in Kyiv.

And you can do everything you want in the appartment, including chairs.

Good luck, enjoy your baby,   Description: Description: http://freemail.ukr.net/ajax/img/smiles/senile.gif 

Tanya 

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Graham Seibert" <grahamseib@gmail.com>
Кому: "Тетяна Клинченко" <kl-tetyana@ukr.net>
Дата: 18 грудня 2011, 10:56:07
Тема: Re: Big table

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Graham Seibert

12/18/11

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to Тетяна

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Thanks very much!  One of the nicest things about being here is having you as a landlady.

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Тетяна Клинченко kl-tetyana@ukr.net

12/18/11

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to me

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Thank you!   Description: Description: http://freemail.ukr.net/ajax/img/smiles/1.gif

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Graham Seibert" <grahamseib@gmail.com>
Кому: "Тетяна Клинченко" <kl-tetyana@ukr.net>

Дата: 18 грудня 2011, 11:32:41
Тема:
Re: Big table

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Graham Seibert

Jun 26 (9 days ago)

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to Сергій, Тетяна

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Tanya --

 

You have not answered my email of three days ago, below.  

 

Christian Ethics only comes into play when there is a difference of agreement.  It is a methodology for resolving differences.  Most differences in the realm of business involve, like this one, money.  You should be familiar with mechanisms to resolve differences such as ours, and I would hope you could propose something.

 

With regard to the trash, we cleaned the apartment and took the trash out before we left.  We were unable to vacuum, as we had already taken our vacuum cleaner to the new house.  Our departure would have been more orderly if you had not suddenly, surprisingly decided you were going to withhold the entire month's rent you held as a deposit.

 

I carefully left the Bible you had given us on the corner of the bed.  As you know, I had several Bibles when you gave me that copy and I accepted it only to be gracious.  I certainly did not leave it in the trash.  

 

Disputes between Christians delight nonbelievers.  I hope that you can propose a way that we can resolve this within the Christian community.  

 

I look for your response.

 

Graham

 

 

 

 

 

 

(from June 23, 2012)

Tanya –

 

I have put your claims into a table. 

 

The major items in your list, the divan and the three chairs appear to date from Soviet times.  The values you claim are excessive, even for when they were new.  Do you have receipt showing how much your mother paid for them?  Can you give the source of your estimates?

 

The mattress is the one your mother used.  It is also many years old, perhaps also Soviet era.  Even when we moved in it had a mattress pad, the kind one puts on a bed to protect it in case an incontinent person urinates in the night.  It was already soiled.  Do you have a receipt showing how much that mattress cost?

 

You replaced the faucet in the kitchen and the washing machine during our tenancy.  Repair of such items is a landlord’s responsibility.  We always called such problems to your attention, and you sent your man Denis or an appropriate master to fix them.  Both the kitchen faucet and the washing machine were working well when we left.  If they had not been, we would have told you.

 

You took the picture in question to your apartment more than a year ago.  It was not in our custody.  We had discussed it before.  The streak in question appears to be part of the painting.  In any case, we never had or used heavy oil in the apartment, and that picture hung safely in the guest room opposite the piano.  We did nothing to damage the painting.

 

This is a business dispute between Christians.  Surely Christian ethics provides a mechanism for resolving such matters.  What references do you have which would suggest an approach?

 

Graham

 

Item

Damage

Claimed Amount Hryvnya

Dollar Equivalent at 8.07

Documentation

divan -

 

broken

8000 hrn

$991

 

3 chairs

 

broken

4200

$520

 

mattrass -

 

broken and dirty

1400 hrn

$173

 

crane in the kitchen -

 

broken

260 hrn

$32

 

picture

 

restoration of the soiled by black dirt (fuel oil?) (the same was on the fall) -

400 hrn

$50

 

 

washing machine

 

 

 

 

Total

 

 

$1,767